Nigedo |
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Reged: 05/29/03 |
Posts: 2594 |
Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Hi folks,
something new for you to try.
From the ReadMe:-
This
is a modders' resource.
It allows modders to add a scripted
interface to their mods which gives their mods the functionality to
obtain freely selected text responses from the Player.
Each
correct response may be up to eight letters long and the Player is
given the option to respond with any word up to this length.
The archive includes a demo ESP that adds a riddle to
the ground floor door of the Customs and Excise Warehouse in Seyda
Neen. The Player may enter any combination of up
to eight letters in order to guess the answer to
the riddle.
It also includes a clean ESP containing just the
script functionality for modders to merge into their own mods.
This is a BETA release. Although I have tested the scripting
quite thoroughly, I would appreciate any bug reports, comments or
suggestions you may have.
BTW, thanks to Qarl for the
helpful tips about hex-editing to improve format.
Cheers mate!
Screenshots:-
Screen 1
Screen 2
Download Here - at a tiny 9kb.
-------------------- Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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sounds very
interesting
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VampyrPrince |
Curate |
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Reged: 04/17/04 |
Posts: 701 |
Loc: Listening to The Ballad of the Fallen
Angels..... | |
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looks kinda
neat but i still cant think of any uses for it
-------------------- My
Site
Evil is a point of view. God kills indiscriminately
and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are, none so
like him as ourselves.-The Vampire Lestat
Though the Blood
of Christ we are forgiven.
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Quote:
looks kinda neat but i still cant think of any uses for it
Morrowind hangman maybe?
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Nigedo |
Diviner |
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Reged: 05/29/03 |
Posts: 2594 |
Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Quote:
looks kinda neat but i still cant think of any uses for it
Err... how about allowing the
Player to provide their own answer to a riddle posed by your mod,
instead of being forced to offer them three or four set answers to
choose from.
Or, what about having them learn somewhere a secret word to
open an enchanted door - the catch being that they actually have to
remember it themselves.
Just a couple of suggestions. LOL
-------------------- Dean of
The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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Daduke |
Diviner |
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Reged: 07/12/02 |
Posts: 2172 |
Loc: Canada | |
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throw in
aerleon's journal mod and it could become quitet
interesting
good job
Daduke
-------------------- Daduke assumes certain things are
understood namely that he makes requests not demands and what he say
is his opinion and that some of the things he says are humorous
-Motoki- ---------- My Website
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Nigedo |
Diviner |
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Reged: 05/29/03 |
Posts: 2594 |
Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Thanks Daduke.
AFAIK,
this is the first time it has ever been made possible for a script
to capture a Player's freely selected text response and check it
against an expected one.
-------------------- Dean of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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Grumpy |
Disciple |
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Reged: 08/02/02 |
Posts: 1590 |
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This looks
intresting, but how the hell did you capture keystrokes without an
external program running? I could use that myself. Save me a hundred
or so lines in my script!
-------------------- Grumpy My
mods
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Daduke |
Diviner |
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Reged: 07/12/02 |
Posts: 2172 |
Loc: Canada | |
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Being doing a
bit of pming with N here but decided it might be better to post here
instead
Basically - I was requiring about the possibility of
impenting this mod into sections in morrowind where it would fit. ie
the existing riddles... like the bloodmoon cave one... I honestly
just saved and then clicked on each possible answer and reloaded
until I guessed correctly.
Can anyone else think of other
sections where it would fit?
-------------------- Daduke
assumes certain things are understood namely that he makes requests
not demands and what he say is his opinion and that some of the
things he says are humorous
-Motoki- ---------- My Website
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Nigedo |
Diviner |
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Reged: 05/29/03 |
Posts: 2594 |
Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Quote:
his looks intresting, but how the hell did you capture
keystrokes without an external program running?
Well, it uses message box menus
layered as a continuous interface. The Player can shuffle through
short ranges of letters and click on a button for each letter they
want to select in turn.
They can also choose to quit or
start over.
The button clicks and their order are
concatenated into a numeric code which is returned to the calling
script, when the Player is finished.
The code is then
evaluated against a pre-defined value for the correct response and
the script responds according to whether they match up or not.
Daduke:-
Quote:
I honestly just saved and then clicked on each possible answer
and reloaded until I guessed correctly.
Yup! That's the problem with the
Beth method of presenting riddles especially. If it seems at all
difficult, it's far to easy to just poiny and click until the right
answer comes up. I've done it myself before now.
This
approach makes you work a bit harder, depending on how devious the
modder is prepared to be.
-------------------- Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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Grumpy |
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Reged: 08/02/02 |
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Quote:
concatenated
You sir, have caused me brain
damage with this big word. Not to mention the hernia I just got
picking up my Webster's Unabridged Dictionary...
What
I was hoping for was quick-keys.
Potential
uses:
Combination locks (would be great for thief types
(skill increase with the least amount of guesses))...
Posers
given by NPCs (how old do you THINK I am??? (disposition
stuff))...
Don't laugh now... Guess an NPC's weight for
money...
Lottery
...other games of chance (using
randoms... that would be cruel)...
Mechant without the barter
screen (dialog only (How many do you want? ...or maybe haggle over
the price...)
Anagrams (Hey! Be nice. Im reaching
here...)
Chess (Knight to K4)...
Passwords given to
NPCs to enter secret areas (immersive)...
...or Skooma
dens... (speakeasy)
I give up...
-------------------- Grumpy My
mods
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that reminds
me of those good old Sierra adventure games before the advent of
icon-based gameplay. Gotta love those old parser interface!
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A good idea
for this would be make a mod that brings the riddle chests from
Betrayal at Krondor to Vvardenfell.
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Quote:
A good idea for this would be make a mod that brings the
riddle chests from Betrayal at Krondor to Vvardenfell.
That was a nice game. If a dos
emulator would exist for my palm handheld there's a ton of these
oldies I'd play on it like Betrayal at Krondor, X-COM ufo defense,
Quest for Glory titles, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, to
name a few.
It's a really nice gameplay addition Nigedo,
it'll allow more complex puzzles and riddles.
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shannon_ |
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Reged: 06/05/04 |
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WOW! Sounds
intruiging, and complicated!
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Quote:
Quote:
looks kinda neat but i still cant think of any uses for it
Err... how about allowing the
Player to provide their own answer to a riddle posed by your mod,
instead of being forced to offer them three or four set answers to
choose from.
Or,
what about having them learn somewhere a secret word to open an
enchanted door - the catch being that they actually have to
remember it themselves.
Just a couple of suggestions.
LOL
Something like answering a
riddle with this would take an amazing amount of scripting, as there
are hundreds of ways to say the same thing. Example: Poor people
have it, rich people need it, what is it? You would have to script
all possible correct answers: None, nothing, no items, starvation,
etc, etc.
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qarl |
Disciple |
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Reged: 05/07/02 |
Posts: 1111 |
Loc: Michigan | |
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Cool idea
Nigedo! It's unfortunate there isn't anyway to use that thing at the
begining of the game where you type in your name.
-------------------- -qarl @}-----;---- My
mods WIP: The Underground Tutorials
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_TaddeuS_ |
Adept |
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Reged: 03/01/04 |
Posts: 240 |
Loc: Rome, Italy | |
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This is truly
an interesting work! I thought to do it myself, but I never found
the time and the will. Oh well... Now it's ready for me to use!
Finally riddles will be a little more intriguing than clicking
3-4 buttons until the correct answer comes out.
And have a trophy!
-------------------- Italians Mod it Better!!!
Homepage: Taddeus & Nymeria Internet Hideout REL
thread: Necessities of Morrowind 2.0
Edited by _TaddeuS_ (07/29/04 03:38 AM)
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Lingarn |
Disciple |
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Reged: 10/23/02 |
Posts: 1075 |
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You can't,
VampyrPrince?
Think about it. This code enables eight
letters. A gate address in this galaxy is only seven... To get to a
new one, i.e. Atlantis or the Asgard homeworld, you need eight
letters.
Imagine having a working DHD, and trying to figure
out the gate addresses.
Plus, in more general terms, all of
the passwords, and riddles, and puzzles of every flavor (As the more
eloquent members of the forum have pointed out
).
Lingarn
-------------------- "...old farts like
Lingarn..." -- Grumblepunk, 28/02/04
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AcidBasick |
Curate |
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Reged: 04/21/04 |
Posts: 418 |
Loc: Illinois, United States
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This is most
revolutionary, Nigedo.
The
most amazing thing about this accomplishment is that you used the
original Morrowind language. Aerelorn uses an outside program to
capture text while your's can be used stand-alone. I cannot wrap my
brain around how you managed to store and access the text input -
nor am I willing to attempt to understand. Most regulars here
on these forums know that this type of text capturing has been
suggested but never completed for some time.
This is a most
noteworthy accomplishment.
I hope OverrideB1 arrives soon to give you the Pretty Darn Nifty Award. I am
not authorized to do so.
-------------------- AcidBasick Morrowind 3d Max Animation Guide Concept Critters
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A way to make the input easier to type into would be:
1. pop up a dialog box (forcegreeting an an npc with no
bodyparts, that you did placeatpc)
2. Give him a topic for
every letter in the alphabet. The topics could be eg "A" or if you
may prefer "A_" or "_A_" if you dont want to make topics of single
letters
3. Give him a greeting that is the qwerty keyboard
with a space between each letter that you had a topic for.
4. After each letter press do a forcegreeting to redisplay
the keyboard.
This way they could simply "type" in to a
qwerty keyboard by selecting the letters with the mouse. (or if
you dont like the querty keyboard you could do a A to Z in
alphabetical order keyboard instead)
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actually nice
thing...very nice news
at last something really new and usefull released. Lottery does
sound interesting..ppl post your ideas!
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Vampyre |
Adept |
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Reged: 07/11/01 |
Posts: 246 |
Loc: Downunder | |
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Quote:
Quote:
his looks intresting, but how the hell did you capture
keystrokes without an external program running?
Well, it uses message box menus
layered as a continuous interface. The Player can shuffle through
short ranges of letters and click on a button for each letter they
want to select in turn.
They can also choose to quit or
start over.
The button clicks and their order are
concatenated into a numeric code which is returned to the calling
script, when the Player is finished.
The code is then
evaluated against a pre-defined value for the correct response and
the script responds according to whether they match up or not.
Daduke:-
Quote:
I honestly just saved and then clicked on each possible
answer and reloaded until I guessed correctly.
Yup! That's the problem with the
Beth method of presenting riddles especially. If it seems at all
difficult, it's far to easy to just poiny and click until the
right answer comes up. I've done it myself before now.
This
approach makes you work a bit harder, depending on how devious the
modder is prepared to be.
HAH I KNEW this was
possible
Given a bit of work I was planning on working on
something like this for my first mod! Great
idea Ingenious well done congratulations have a fishy
stick Why didn't anyone think of doing this
before! yaya
-------------------- --------------------
Let your imagination run rampant
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Nigedo
stunning work! This will make many things in Morrowind much more
indepth and detailed.I can just imagine the types of relationships
that can emerge between player and Npcs.Reminds me of an old
Commodore64 western game where ones behaviour and replies to others
really made one well liked or thought of as a jerk.I remember my
Brother inlaw watching me as i played saying all sorts of nice
respectful things to the towns women and he was thinking oh brother
this aint real life but lo and behold i got a real life respectful
response back which he thought was very interesting.
Thank
you for all the hard work you put into this and opening the flood
gates to all sorts of possibilities.
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Nigedo |
Diviner |
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Reged: 05/29/03 |
Posts: 2594 |
Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Thanks
everyone for your feedback.
Guenthar, MNWAT, Shannon, Qarl,
Taddeus, Lingarn, Acid, Vincent, Vampy and HellBishop; I am very
grateful for your support chaps. It means a lot to me, thank you.
I know this idea has been proposed before now, but I've
never seen a working example. My main priorities were to make the
interface as little effort to operate, as easy to integrate into a
mod and as technically efficient as possible.
Random_Scrib:
Quote:
Something like answering a riddle with this would take an
amazing amount of scripting, as there are hundreds of ways to say
the same thing. Example: Poor people have it, rich people need it,
what is it? You would have to script all possible correct answers:
None, nothing, no items, starvation, etc, etc.
Since it runs as a
self-terminating global script, it can be called freely within
anyone's mod without the need for complicated scripting to integrate
it.
You just have to have sufficient scripting knowledge to
know how to test the values returned by the interface. I have
provided all the information a competent scripter would need to do
this, in the archive.
The limitation is that only *one word*
will be the expected response, any other response will be treated as
'incorrect'.
EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, there's
no reason that a clever scripter couldn't allow for several possible
expected responses and script one reaction to all of them or
different reactions for each.
The main benefit of the
interface is that allows Player reponses to be captured in a form
that can be interpreted by MW script. What you do with the Player's
response is really up to you.
Cortex:
Quote:
A way to make the input easier to type into would be:
1. pop up a dialog box (forcegreeting an an npc with no
bodyparts, that you did placeatpc)
2. Give him a topic for
every letter in the alphabet. The topics could be eg "A" or if you
may prefer "A_" or "_A_" if you dont want to make topics of single
letters
3. Give him a greeting that is the qwerty keyboard
with a space between each letter that you had a topic for.
4. After each letter press do a forcegreeting to redisplay
the keyboard.
This way they could simply "type" in to a
qwerty keyboard by selecting the letters with the mouse. (or
if you dont like the querty keyboard you could do a A to Z in
alphabetical order keyboard instead)
I am considering attempting to
integrate an interface into dialogue.
The problem with the
method you suggested is that it would be more difficult to capture
individual letter choices and assign each letter a unique code. It
would require an array of at least 26 condition tests with every
click, whereas my interface uses only 5, making it far more
technically efficient and fast.
I will think about doing
something similar through dialogue though.
BTW, has
anyone actually tried out the demo, yet?
-------------------- Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
Edited by Nigedo (07/29/04 05:02 PM)
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VampyrPrince |
Curate |
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Reged: 04/17/04 |
Posts: 701 |
Loc: Listening to The Ballad of the Fallen
Angels..... | |
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hey i just
thot of one a way to curse at npcs u dont like,
like they
ask u what ur name is u can tell him to like get away u bleepedy
bleep bleep
fargoth asks u if u have his ring u can say
bleep off u bleepn bleeper
:P just some random thoughts lol
-------------------- My
Site
Evil is a point of view. God kills indiscriminately
and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are, none so
like him as ourselves.-The Vampire Lestat
Though the Blood
of Christ we are forgiven.
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Wow!
Well done Nigedo!
It is so refreshing
to see a serious modder doing serious script work and advancing the
cause for all the rest of us students of the
CS.
Congratulations on a genuine breakthrough!
x 10
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qarl |
Disciple |
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Reged: 05/07/02 |
Posts: 1111 |
Loc: Michigan | |
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This works
great! I used it on a place where a guard won't let you pass unless
you know the password. Nice job!
-------------------- -qarl @}-----;---- My
mods WIP: The Underground Tutorials
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Awesome!
That's really cool, and something Morrowind was sorely lacking
Also,
is the answer 'a net'?
-------------------- Djupsgaard - Hidden Halls 1.3
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Woo! This is a
great idea, I was just thinking the other day how silly Bethesda's
riddle interface is.
Mount Kand Shrine has riddles, btw.. One of each kind of
atronach asks you a question, and you need to get them right before
you can complete that particular Temple pilgrimage quest.
Couldn't
you use the same pop-up window but have it show the entire alphabet
rather than just a few letters at a time? I'm not a modder, so I
don't know the limitations.. but it seems to me that would be the
best way to do it...
Anyway, good luck with this. I'm
intrigued, this is the most original yet obvious idea I've seen in a
long time.
I can't wait to see it become popular in mods, from "fixing" the
areas in the original game (and expansions) that had riddles to
needing a password to get into a shady group's hideout (Morag Tong?
some Thieve's Guild sites?) to opening safes or activating some
crazy Dwemer contraptions I haven't dreamed up yet.
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qarl |
Disciple |
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Reged: 05/07/02 |
Posts: 1111 |
Loc: Michigan | |
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The script
engine is limited to 8 choices at a time.
-------------------- -qarl @}-----;---- My
mods WIP: The Underground Tutorials
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Corv |
Adept |
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Reged: 08/18/03 |
Posts: 248 |
Loc: Austria | |
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AWESOME
work!!!
I
hope all the people here relize how revolutionary this is for
quests.... !
You deserve some of those for sure:
-------------------- MY MODS:
ULTIMA - The new
King (Total Conversion): HOMEPAGE
CORV'S ULTIMATE RANGER MOD incl.
new item combination system: HOMEPAGE V2 THREAD
Corv Dragon
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brady228 |
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Reged: 05/04/04 |
Posts: 1386 |
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Excellent work
Nigedo!
This opens up tons of possibilities. Well done!
-------------------- Once sailed the seas Now roams
the land
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Corv |
Adept |
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Reged: 08/18/03 |
Posts: 248 |
Loc: Austria | |
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This combined
with my item combination system - that does the same for unique item
combination as you do for letter combination ... wow - I am really
looking forward to make quests for my TC with this!! Some more for
you:
-------------------- MY MODS:
ULTIMA - The new
King (Total Conversion): HOMEPAGE
CORV'S ULTIMATE RANGER MOD incl.
new item combination system: HOMEPAGE V2 THREAD
Corv Dragon
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mighty_joe_young |
Disciple |
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Reged: 04/21/03 |
Posts: 1767 |
Loc: in rome" built ,100%"
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nice stuff
here ,to complicated for me,hehe brain cell gone just reading though
the post,
but
after this is release, it will be interesting to see people do stuff
with it,i like the lotery idear,pick a fight and bet on npc`s ,mmm
lots of way to use this.
-------------------- HOMEPAGE<> CHECK FOR NEW FREE
MESHES
http://ca.geocities.com/jojo1057@rogers.com/MainPage/index.html
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Niobe |
Acolyte |
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Reged: 01/27/04 |
Posts: 179 |
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Now we can have real puzzles to answer.
-------------------- In the debating chamber of his mind
a dozen emotions got to their feet and started shouting. Relief was
in full spate when Shock cut in on a point of order and then
Bewilderment, Terror and Loss started a fight which ended only when
Shame slunk in from next door to see what all the row was about.
—Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic
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Corv |
Adept |
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Reged: 08/18/03 |
Posts: 248 |
Loc: Austria | |
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Yes, but not
only puzzles - also simple stuff that the player was able to avoid
via trial and error before:
Example: You want that the player
can enter/do something only if he knows a password that he only can
have if he solved something before succesfully where he got the
password. Before you could give him choices and if he didnt know he
could just try and reload - now he really has to know it!
-------------------- MY MODS:
ULTIMA - The new
King (Total Conversion): HOMEPAGE
CORV'S ULTIMATE RANGER MOD incl.
new item combination system: HOMEPAGE V2 THREAD
Corv Dragon
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Mode_Locrian |
Diviner |
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Reged: 10/07/02 |
Posts: 2084 |
Loc: Bjornholm, Rykith Lowlands Region
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Clever
solution to this problem... now we can have actual riddles. Nice
work, Nigedo.
-------------------- My Website Bards of Vvardenfell Thread (New Info 8/15/04)
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